MUSIC ANGLE

2005-07-01

Veteran Recording Engineer Roy Halee

On Recording Simon and Garfunkel and Others

By Michael Fremer

You won't find Roy Halee's name on many great sounding records. Not because the veteran recording engineer hasn't made them, but because Columbia Records' policy for many years was to not credit the engineer on the jacket. So, aside from the few that do credit him, the others require you to know who they are. That's one reason I tracked Roy down through Sterling Sound's Greg Calbi who has mastered many of Halee's recent projects. But more importantly, as with Bill Porter, I just wanted to sit down face to face with someone who has consistently provided us with great sound, and find out why and how he managed to do it, when so many others failed.

Some of Halee's recording credits are well known: all of Simon and Garfunkel's records, the best sounding Byrds albums (Notorious Byrd Brothers and Sweetheart of the Rodeo), and of course, Paul Simon's two fascinating and extremely successful projects (both commercially and artistically) Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints.

Halee, who grew up in the New York metropolitan area, comes from a musical family. His mother played violin in Al Jolson's band. His father was the original singing voice of the cartoon character Mighty Mouse among other musical credits. His sister sings opera professionally, and Roy plays trumpet for his own amusement. Despite his long association with pop and rock, Halee is a devotee of classical music-especially opera.

While some people leave their work in the office, Halee has no problem taking it home with him. Nor would you if you had his stereo system, which includes a Rockport System III Sirius, Wilson Alexandrias and one of Wilson's refrigerator sized Xcess subwoofers.

MF: As an engineer who's been around for awhile and who knows what good sound is, how do you reconcile that with the need to make records that sound “contemporary”-usually meaning not good sounding. How do you balance those conflicting sensibilities?

RH: That's a good, good question. First of all, I come from the school of making pop records, where you have to get it and you have to get it fast-that's where I came from at Columbia Records. The arranger is out in the studio running down the tune and by the time that's done, you have to have the sound because he's got to do four songs in three hours-and that includes possible overdubs. So you've got to get it fast, and sometimes sound has to take a backseat.

MF: How did you get started at Columbia?

RH: I began at Columbia's classical division. I was laid off at CBS television, a hundred guys were laid off.

MF: Interesting, because that's how Bill Porter got started. He was in television and got laid off and ended up at RCA Nashville.

RH: When I was there, they were doing Gleason, Playhouse 90, and all those shows-live. I was lucky to get into the record side-because my father was in the business, a singer. Mitch Miller got me in actually-and I started editing tapes of classical performances. This was in the late Fifties-the stereo era had begun.

MF: And you worked down at the East 30th Street studios?

RH: Well, no. In those days, the studios were studios, the editing room was an editing room, and the mastering room was a mastering room-all separate. Dates were done, the tapes came into an editing room where they were edited and mixed down to a two-track and a mono, from there to a mastering room. I found myself in an editing room, editing a lot of classical music-which I like, because my real love is classical music.

They started occasionally sending me on remotes-to Manhattan Center to run the tape machines, whatever. Gradually they were breaking me in. And I found-I was a little disappointed-that there wasn't a lot of experimenting going on. It was a set thing. You go in, that mike goes there, that one there-ten AKG C-12s up there and boom boom boom! It's done the same way every time and nobody changes anything. They used a lot of mikes on a symphony orchestra in those days.

MF: An didn't they add a great deal of artificial reverb to those classical recordings?

RH: Well, not necessarily to the Manhattan Center recordings. But that was the so-called “golden age” at Columbia. They had The New York Philharmonic, The Philadelphia Orchestra. And I think some of the stuff done in Cleveland was a little dry.

MF: Well there's a very famous story about George Szell having an AR-3A under his couch and he'd bring a temp mix back home to listen, and he'd say “Too much bass!” So they'd turn it down, and those recordings ended up bass-shy.

RH: I believe that. You should talk to Buddy Graham [a still active remote engineer who recorded the Philadelphia Orchestra and the Mormon Tabernacle choir among many others for Columbia Classical Masterworks].

MF: That's probably one of the reasons the Columbia pressings are out in the bins for a few bucks while the Mercurys and RCA-well you know.

RH: Well I have a lot of those wonderful old mono Mercurys and I noticed in the notes how they were recorded using one microphone hung directly over the conductor's head…that's what I grew up with though I learned fast that that is not always practical!

MF: At that point, Columbia wasn't doing much rock and roll.

RH: No. Mitch Miller who was head of A&R did not like rock and roll. He was a pop man. Sinatra. Percy Faith. So somehow I was able to break out of classical editing and do more pop editing, like Steve Lawrence and Johnny Mathis. And I'm thinking to myself, musically I don't really love this, but it's more fun, more challenging.

MF: What kind of editing was involved in that? Did you splice-in during takes?

RH: Absolutely. Tons of it. There was always a breakdown. First of all, it was always three-track and if there was a breakdown they'd make an insert for the error.

MF: Breakdown in what sense? Technically or musically or both.

RH: Well, there never were any breakdowns technically at Columbia, in my experience. They had really fine engineers-super engineers-guys like Fred Plaut and Frank Laico and a terrific maintenance staff! And the producer of the session would have it all laid out for the editor before we got to it. Editing the three-track would go on for several days to compile an album.

MF: You weren't at the sessions then?

RH: Occasionally they'd send me up to run a machine. Or I'd be a back-up, or I'd peek in to see what was going on. But mostly I was doing editing and remixing. I did that for about a year and a half and I started to get good at it. And I started to get requested by A&R guys who'd say, “Hey, let's use that new guy…”

MF: And part of that is personality-the way you relate to the artist?

RH: Absolutely. That's how I got in with Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme. I remixed “Go Away Little Girl,” and it was a number one. So I got popular. By then I really wanted to get in the studio and do a lot more remixing.

MF: Who taught you how to edit tape in the first place?

RH: Well, the people at Columbia when I switched over from television. When I saw how these guys edited-particularly the classical editors-they could cut on a string legato, and cut on the “eeee,” and scrub it and hear it and I'm saying “What the…! What are they hearing?” And I mean they're not going back and forth 25 minutes. They rock back and forth three times and there it is!

MF: Did they read music?

RH: Of course. But you always had the A&R man there because it was a union rule. And I never thought I'd get in the studio because of seniority. But lo and behold, they put me in one day to do some recording. They sent me out on the road doing some classical recording which I love. I got to do the Louisville Orchestra. They sent me down to the Village Gate when Barbra Streisand did her first recording for CBS-I think-then all of a sudden they give me my first sessions in the New York studio and it was cutting Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited! And I don't know what I'm doing! I'm skating on thin ice with this guy. I know enough about recording at this point that the singer cana't go over and stand next to the drums because he wants to. I mean I've got a big leakage problem, you know. And he wants to. So you do what he wants to do! And when you're new in the studio you definitely do what he wants to do because you're not sure of yourself! But somehow you get through it.

MF: Well that's a great sounding record on an original pressing.

RH: Well, it's all live. Al Kooper was on that date. Mike Bloomfield. Tom Wilson was the producer (Wilson also produced Frank Zappa at MGM)-it was fun.

MF: Everything was out of tune on that record-some idiot writer for CD Review dismissed the quality and importance of the record because of that.

RH: Well it was awfully out of tune, but…I'm getting excited about this now.

MF: Well sure! Did you realize at the time that you were making history?

RH: Oh no! I just looked at it as a session because everyone around there was just looking at it and saying, “What is this shit?” Of course, that's coming from a record company that's basically a pop company. So after Highway 61 Revisited-get this for luck, I love luck. Tom Wilson's bringing in these guys to do an audition. And in walks these two kids, Simon and Garfunkel. They're going to come in and do an audition. Two guys and a guitar-this is going to be great, I can't miss. This was at the 799 7th Avenue studio, which later turned into A&R Studios. A great studio, and they sold it! And they later moved to 49 E. 52nd Street. Terrible studios. So anyway, I do this audition for Simon and Garfunkel.

MF: Do you remember what song it was?

RH: Song? It was the whole album, man! The whole Wednesday Morning album was the audition.

MF: Did they know they were doing a whole album or did they think they were doing an audition?

RH: They didn't know. They were kids with their knees knocking through their pants. So we do this thing and I remember thinking I love it. I love these guys. I love the sound of their voices. I love the blend. Coming from a classical school, I heard classical influences. These guys are not run-of-the-mill and they're a pleasure to work with. So anyway, a couple of weeks later Tom Wilson is going to come in and add an electric rock track with some local musicians to try and make it commercial.

MF: Simon and Garfunkel had no idea this was happening, right?

RH: Absolutely. Paul was in England and Artie was off teaching somewhere. And we do these overdubs, and it's released, and Sounds of Silence because a huge hit, and all of a sudden it's “get these guys back!”

MF: Who did the arrangements of that stuff?

RH: In was all “head dates” in those days. You show them the song and they pretty much play what they feel. The guitar player was wayh out of tune, oh! It was awful. It was a 12-string electric and they are a mess to keep in tune. But now I'm making hit records, and at the studio that's a pop studio, and all of a sudden the studio becomes popular for rock and roll of all things! And before I know it I'm getting asked by outside clients and Columbia doesn't like that, but I did stuff for Kama Sutra. I did The Lovin' Spoonful's “Summer in the City” (Hums of the Lovin' Spoonful) album. That was a hit, and now I'm really hot and now the studio is hot. And it's such a fickle scene. All of a sudden everyone is saying “Let's try that new studio, Columbia, and let's get that young guy over there.” And artists started asking for me, too. And I like to think the success of that studio and Columbia signing some of those acts at that time was due to the sound we got. But you're talking to a guy that can't stand putting on his own records. They don't sound anything like the master tapes.

MF: Of course you heara the flaws and the mistakes…

RH: And it drives me crazy! I can't listen to too many pop records on the IRSes (Infinity IRS speakers Halee then owned). I'm more likely to listen to pop on the WATTs (Wilson Audio WATT/Puppys). Like a shaker-I thought I got a really nice sound on the shaker. And I get it sounding correct and it's placed hard left. And on the IRSes it's vague. But you throw it on the Wilsons and there it is! They image much better than the IRSes.

MF: Did you do any Dylan albums after Highway 61 Revisited?

RH: No. The thing about me is, I've got to like the people. They've got to be pleasant to work with.

MF: Dylan is notorious for not being easy to work with.

RH: Simon and Garfunkel on the other hand-I had a ball. Because now I'm out of this classical set routine: I'm in the studio, I can do what I want! I can put a mike out in the street if I want and I'm really having fun.

MF: They were open to experimentation?

RH: Absolutely! For example, they had great echo chambers at Columbia, but I didn't like the speakers they had in there-the sound. So I said “Let's go in the echo chamber and try to do some vocals in there.” Well, you know the background vocals on “The Only Living Boy in New York” on the Bridge Over Troubled Water LP? The “aah aah ah ahs?” That was done in one of the echo chambers and I think it's an interesting sound.

Plus, Dolby. I don't like Dolby (noise reduction), but Dolby can do some interesting things sonically. You can record in Dolby to push the top end, but don't resolve it, which we also did on those voices. IT can give you a kind of snap you can't get with an equalizer on some things.

We did “Bye Bye Love” and Paul said one day “Why don't we do it live, and the audience can be our drum.” He said “Let's not use a drum”-that's where he was coming from. Always looking for something different and interesting. So we go out and start doing live performances and we find we're not really making it-somebody's always making mistakes-we're not going to get this. Sometimes the audience is good, but they're not, or they're good and audience can't keep time. So I say, let's go in the studio and get it right, and let's go out and overdub the audience!

MF: Did they have an aesthetic problem with that?

RH: Not really, just that it would be hard to do…then the aesthetic thing did come up, you know. And I said you could tell the audience what we're up to, up front.

MF: It's funny-when the Milli Vanilli controversy occurred, a writer in The New York Times said it was no different from Simon and Garfunkel's Sounds of Silence overdubs.

RH: That's ridiculous! So we did it. I overdubbed the audience applauding on (beats) two and four to the track. We went out to different locations because we weanted to mix in a few audiences. And they would fall out of rhythm occasionally, so we had to wild track (a track recorded on a different tape machine and not synched up to the original) and in those days you couldn't sample, so I had four two-track machines wild tracked, so you could grab stuff from each. Now I'm in my glory, thinking more about experimenting than sound.

MF: Where did the deep “thunk” on “Cecilia” come from?

RH: We recorded that basic track on a Sony home machine in Paul's living room and then we dumped that onto a multitrack in the studio. And that thunk is just a big bass drum.

MF: The piano on “Bridge Over Troubled Water”-the sound of that piano is spectacular. Do you remember how you got that? In fact, where did the form for the sound to that song as a whole come from? How much of it was you, how much of it was Paul?

RH: It was both of us.

MF: And that's why the two of you have worked together all these years? Because you have a symbiotic relationship?

RH: The basic track was just a piano with Larry Knechtel in that huge CBS studio in Los Angeles, and the piano was out in the middle of the room with mikes back in a classical configuration instead of right over the keys.

MF: And the wet, fat drum sound?

RH: Just experimenting. The snare compressed to some degree-the kit was out in the hallway-anyplace but in the studio, which gave it that nice big sound like an explosion.

MF: Most of the manipulation done today is not organic like that-it's electronic.

RH: Sound, to me, means a symphony orchestra in a wonderful space-all acoustic with air, ambience, deep soundstaging. That's how I'm prejudiced. But in the pop thing, it's more fun, feel, and experimenting. But I'm patronizing in the sense that it will never sound like, or have the weight of say, the Berlin Philharmonic playing in a wonderful space.

We did a lot of experimenting in audio with respect to what they have today with AMS and Quantec reverb units, DDL (digital delay lines), the new Harmonizer H 3000 which is a hell of a machine that can do just about anything. All these sampling devices-like on Graceland we used Paul's Synclavier-amazing. I brought in my snare drum, we sampled it and put it where we wanted it. But in some of those Simon and Garfunkel records it really came off like the sounds they're doing today, only it was all done flying in, fast delays using tape machines flanging, and I could sight instances where the sounds we got are the sounds of those machines today, only better because they were analog and sound better.

For example on “Save The Life Of My Child” that big choral sound, I flanged the chambers using tapae machines running slightly off speed from each other. You could create hugh sounds that way. What am I doing basically? I'm using a really fast DDL. “At The Zoo,” I thought it would be really neat to give a featured scraper some character, so we flanged the echo chamber. We took the output of the mono echo chamber to two machines and oscillated one up and down in speed. Today they're into that kind of manipulation, but we did it then without electronic processing.

The best record I ever made technically-and it still satisfies me sonically and every way, and I don't care what anybody says-was “The Boxer.” Unbelievable-I love to talk about that record-well, we made it, Paul and I. It's insane, the sounds that are on there. You talk about AMS reverbs? That sound is all over it, but done by opening and closing echo chambers by feel and hand-machines can't do it. There's a bass harmonica on that. It was an eight-track recording.

MF: One? Not two synched up?

RH: That's what I ended up having to create to fit all of those voices on there. I needed 16-tracks. I had to figure out a way to copy all of the first eight tracks onto the second for headphone feed. I figured it out. So we filled up the first eight tracks really quickly with music. Then I came up with the idea of making a big choral thing at the end. Artie says “Yea, it would be neat to go up to the chapel at Columbia University and do it” because Artie went to Columbia. Now we're talking about taking an eight-track with Dolby, remote, which has never been done before, and now CBS is saying “is this really necessary?”

MF: And from a studio that was putting microphones in set places!

RH: Exactly. And here we were adding voices, a big tuba, and a piccolo trumpet playing the melody over a previously recorded Nashville steel guitar to make it a very interesting sound. And here's that church sound, it's not in stereo, we had to do it in mono because we had a track problem. Then we go out and overdub Paul and Artie doing “lie la lie, lie la lie…”

MF: And then there's that big drum “kishhhhhh.”

RH: Well that was done in the elevator shaft at Columbia! So we go to the church, and their voices with Dolby, and now we're out of tracks…Then we were going to do strings, so we decide to record it onto a two-track and wild track it into the final mix.

MF: You had to use a variable pitch control to keep it in synch with the rest?

RH: That's what I did. Not only that, there's a Dobro lick in it, that's a wild track. It took a long time [to mix and cut], but from a technical standpoint, man! Starting with the basic track done in Nashville with Fred Carter and Paul, just Travis picking-unbelievable! Then that great drummer Buddy Harmon added shaker. Then we built it up, adding the second eight. And I'm going to mix and I'm ending up with two eight-track Ampexes and two machines of wild tracks-“please God, make them run in synch” because as it gets hot, they drift. But it worked. It worked on The Byrds stuff too, because I took that to Hollywood to this producer Gary Usher and he saw it and went out of his mind!

But there's a follow up to this that's really going to kill you! Everybody else is getting 16 tracks (machines) but Columbia! And I have to go through all this hassle because I don't have 16 tracks! But I understand because they have a lot of studios and for them to gear up to 16 tracks would be very expensive.

So we go to the mix, and Artie is off doing his movie-which is the demise of Simon and Garfunkel and Paul and I are in the studio mixing, my daughter is born the night before, I'm up all day and night and I'm in great shape. It started to drift out after 12 hours, so I had to offset them and splice the big ending and the strings, which were completely wild. If that had to be mixed today, nobody could do it, guaranteed-and that includes me!

MF: Sonically, the 3 CD set (issued by Columbia in 1991) is a real disappointment.

RH: Yea, well hey! It's fourth and fifth generation tapes! They lose tapes now. They had a foolproof filing system at one time. I don't know what happened. Anyway, here come these things in the studio, what am I supposed to do with this stuff? So my first reaction is send it back! I call CBS. I say “Hey, give me a break! Let's get the originals. I'll remix it. I'll do anything. Anything you want! I don't care. It's history, I want to do it right. Some of this stuff sounds very good.” I want it to sound very good. I don't want to beat it to death, but I couldn't get the tapes. So I'm thinking, “Do I do it or walk?” Finally, I decide to do it because otherwise, maybe whoever will do it, might make it worse. They'll come in with equalizers, suck out all the midrange…

So I did it myself. So getting back to “The Boxer,” to this day I think that record stands up. It's 20 tracks, 4 totally wild-that is synched into the mix by hand. So from a technical standpoint it's quite an achievment.

MF: Getting back to the old days, when you made those recordings, was it a lot more fun in certain ways, doing all that experimenting?

RH: Enormous fun. But then when we went to do Graceland there was more of that kind of challenge, same with Rhythm of the Saints.

MF: You recorded all Paul's solo albums?

RH: Not all of them, no. There was a time when I ended up doing Artie's first solo album and there were some bad feelings going on so we just kind of split. Actually, I recommended to him that he use Phil Ramone because Phil was my favorite guy.

MF: Was he upset with you for working with Art? Or was it just a scheduling conflict?

RH: He was upset, of course. But I had to finish that record and it was fun too, because it was my favorite way of recording pop records and it still is, in the multitrack vein-the best sound is using two 16-track machines running in synch.

MF: As opposed to a 24-track?

RH: Absolutely. Or two 24-tracks, or digital. Talk about polish, presence, you don't have to use any processing-sort of like the old 35MM recorders. You have lots of head width.

MF: Before we get into the last couple of records which obviously were huge successes, let's talk about The Byrds.

RH: I was out there in LA for a very short time working with Paul and Artie. We had that rhythm section out there-Hal Blaine [drums], Joe Osborne [bass], Larry Knechtel [keyboards]-they were doing everything. Those guys are the greatest. Hal Blaine is the greatest thing that ever happened to pop records. So anyway, Gary Usher asked me if I would do that twin eight-track thing I'd come up with, for The Byrds, because nobody else was doing that kind of recording. And I got to do Notorious Byrd Brothers and Sweetheart Of The Rodeo. But the guy who did the early Byrds stuff was Ray Gerhardt-great engineer.

MF: Who else did you record?

RH: Laura Nyro. I did New York Tendaberry. Again, I got burned by experimenting because I found that Laura going in and performing with a band didn't work. She couldn't perform what she did best with strict time in the studio. She was unbelievably great. If she could sit down at the piano and turn the lights down, and you could put candles-what have you-out, she could perform for you like you wouldn't believe. And that's been proven, because when she used to do Carnegie Hall dates, they'd sell out for years in advance and guys would storm the stage. She had magnetism beyond belief. Nothing could hold her back. So to get a performance from Laura live, accompanying herself on piano, and band, you had to do a lot of cutting. I came up with a idea-let's go in and spend a lot of time with her accompanying herself on piano, and overdub the band, but we didn't use an click tracks. And I think the piano vocal performances are the greatest on record.

MF: So who else did you do?

RH: I was doing Blood Sweat and Tears, Peaches and Herb-a lot of R&B stuff. Jazz stuff. I did stuff for the Dave Clark Five, The Yardbirds. I cut “I'm a Man.”

MF: Then you left Columbia?

RH: I finally left Columbia and went with A&R studios. Phil Ramone finally got me. I worked on Mitch Ryder and Frankie Valli sessions with Bob Crewe. Again at Columbia's old 799 studio. Phil is doing outrageous stuff out of there.

 MF: When did you exclusively start working with Paul?

RH: Well, I started doing a wonderful project with Artie and a composer I adore-Jimmy Webb. They were going to do an album called The Animal's Christmas-it's not gonna sell, but I'm thinking digital is in now, and I want to get into it. This is a new thing. And it's going to be great, it's classical. We're going to cut the tracks with the London Symphony Orchestra. Well for one reason or another, that fell apart.

Meanwhile, I get a call from Paul-we had just come off Concert in the Park.

MF: Great sound.

RH: That was a ball. That was done one take, one show, outdoors, in the cold, no repairs from the band, no band overdubs, but Art Garfunkel overdubbed some vocals. It was originally intended to be just a video. We may do the same thing with The Rhythm of The Saints tour, because Paul is doing a lot of the older material, and it may work out well, but we'll have to wait and see how the video comes out first. We're planning on shooting the shows in Brazil later this year.

MF: Are you traveling around with him on this tour?

RH: I started it in the rehearsal stage to set it up and get going, and I went out for the first two weeks. The “machine” is starting to run and I'm not needed.

MF: so let's bring it up to date now….

RH: Well let's go back to the Art Garfunkel thing and how I got involved in Graceland. There's also a digital story here. We went over to CTI in England-you should see the way they set up the orchestra there. CTI is a big studio near Wembley where they do a lot of music scoring, Lawrence of Arabia you can go on and on. It's immense. They set up the orchestra totally out of whack with the way you'd set one up on a performing stage: brass up front, strings in the back: it's bizarre.

And we're going to record this digital and analog-and I had a chance to work with the 3M system and that's why I know it's much better than the Sony, sonically. We bring the tapes back here and the analog is so much better, there's no comparison. The digital is so inferior compared to the Studer you couldn't believe the difference. I'll never forget it. But I say, “Let's stick with the digital.”

MF: Why?

RH: It's the new thing. I always say “Give it a shot.” This is what's going to be happening. It's shoved down our throat, the sampling rate is obviously too low, the sound is mediocre-and that's being kind. Bob Fine (of Mercury Living Presence fame) said the sampling rate was too low 20 years ago. It's too low. It's not high definition television, it's low (was this guy thinking ahead of his time, or what?-MF 2005). But if we walk away it'll never get any better, so we went ahead with it.

As an editing tool, it's great. I could not have made either of these last two Paul Simon records without digital-well I could have, but it would have been a lot harder-and it would have added many more generations in the analog mode.

MF: And they were hard enough to engineer as they were.

RH: Really, and meanwhile Paul calls up and says “I got this exciting new project you may want to get involved with.” I say “great” and I'm off. Artie gets Geoff Emerick to finish it-a sweetheart . I got the CD. I couldn't believe what it sounded like (digital's fault, not Emerick's).

You know what pained me a lot? When we went down to Brazil, we finally found a good studio-Mazola (a reknowned Brazilian producer) had just opened a nice studio-they're very much into acoustics and woods down there, but they don't have a lot of equipment. But Mazola had managed to put in a G series SSL board-the newest.

MF: I've heard that SSL boards are bright sounding.

RH: The old ones are, the new series is more musical. If that console is operating the way it was designed to operate and not with the faders barely cracked open, or wide open, they're fine sounding consoles. We go there and do these tracks for Rhythm Of The Saints, analog obviously, and I think we got a lovely warm, open sound-three percussionists playing live. Hands on skins which is hard to record properly-it sounded live. We did it on Studer A-800 and then overdubbed bits and pieces. And then we brought it back to New York…

MF: And at this point Paul was experimenting-he was just recording long rhythm tracks.

RH: Correct. Now we gotta go back, edit out the mistakes and make the grooves more conducive to having a song written on top of it. So how do we do this? First we have to get rid of the mistakes-there's hitches and glitches and they have to be cut out of there. Plus, well those three bars are great, let's repeat them here and here, so we're going to copy them. With analog that means a lot of razor blade editing and recopying, and second generation and third. Now I'm thinking to myself, “Do I do this?” When you go second generation 24-track without any noise reduction you've got problems, plus the noise on the analog from down there is far louder than in a good studio in New York-I think it's in the alignment of the machines, or the wiring, or the funky power.

So you may say why not get rid of the noise down there? They have Dolby SR. I said, I'm going to be a real purist in the sense, I want to compare Dolby SR to the live. So I recorded them and then played it backkkk and had them synch up to it live like we were doing an overdub and I just A/B-ed back and forth between live and SR and the difference is night and day!

MF: How about them playing live versus the non-Dolby recording?

RH: Perfect! Just a little bit of “ssss.” The SR took out the transient response, I thought. Gone. A guy on a fine bell? Gone. Dolby SR colors the sound. It works, but it colors the sound. There are a lot of instances where you can get away with it, but not here. So we went for the pure thing. Now I'm back home so what do I do? Do I cut it? No. I put it on the Sony 3324 and use it as an editing tool. I do whatever I want. If Paul wants to copy it 25 times, fine.

MF: Is there any generation loss making digital copies?

RH: Let me tell you what happened. We put it on the 3324. Here's the first shock, analog to digital-the 3324 with its Apogee filters and all of those modifications. We're A/B-ing between the analog and digital-no VCA's (faders) on the console-some people think they degrade the sound…well the difference was night and day. It made me sick. I said to my assistant, “Richie, do you believe this?” I wish he was here right now, he'd back me up. He said “I don't believe it.”

MF: So what do you say to those engineers who say this is a perfect medium? That what you put in is what you get out. Why do they say those things?

RH: I can't understand it. It is the medium, it is happening-that's the only way I can figure it.

MF: So what happens when they record symphony orchestras on the 3324?

RH: For what it does to symphony orchestras-even though there's no hiss or flutter and all the rest, well there's no excuse for using it in my opinion.

MF: But all commercial label classical music is recorded digitally today.

RH: Oh (pained sound), I know.

MF: Isn't it ironic that all of the rock and roll “Neanderthals” are still using analog because it sounds better, because they choose better sound, and the classical “good taste” people are going digital?

RH: Yes. Absolutely! Unbelievable isn't it?

MF: And you engineered Graceland basically the same way as Rhythm Of The Saints?

RH: Basically the same way, because I had to edit, edit, edit to create a long song, because there is no song. You don't go into the studio with a band like you did in the old days. That's not the way these records were made. Rhythm Of The Saints was made as rhythm tracks-that's it. Nothing but percussion.

MF: And then after you were done getting everything onto 3324, you mixed it down to analog. What advantage would there be to that once you had it in the numbers domain?

RH: Let's go back one. Wherever I could record analog and retain it, I did. I ran a second analog machine to retain as much analog as possible. And that's what I did with horns, anything Michael Brecker did-so I could retain a little bit of the analog.

MF: Oh. So that way when you mixed down to analog, some of the stuff was left all analog.

RH: Yes, that's right. Now with Paul's vocals, I really wanted to put those on the analog machine but the digital is a great tool. If you want to cut from here to here to here? Boom boom boom and it's done. It's great! I had up to ten edited masters. Ten. And when Paul goes in to do the vocals it's great because there are five empty digital tracks. He goes in and sings a song four times. Easy so far, mix a word, a line from this track, some from that, and you make up a composite. Take that, put it away. A week later he does it again. Composite the composite. Composite the composite ad infinitum. Obviously digital works well here.

MF: Will there be a 100K sampling machine that will make this better?

RH: I doubt it.

MF: So getting back to the original question I asked you: When you go in to mix a record, how much do you have to compromise your values-what you would like it to sound like against Nineties sound values?

RH: I don't even equate it because I don't like what I hear today. I just do what I want to do. What I have to do. Whatever satisfies me. And I keep experimenting-I hope in good taste.

A Selected Roy Halee Discography

Roy Halee

1) Simon and Garfunkel: Sounds of Silence. Columbia CS9269 (“360 Sound label).

Their first “electrified” album features ultra-clean, natural sound on both electric and acoustic instruments. Check out the harpsichord on “Leaves That are Green” along with the deep acoustic bass and the tightly focused and well articulated tambourine. And both voices are absolutely natural sounding, mixed to blend and yet remain individually discernible. The two track master tapes have been lost by CBS. Original pressings are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. But just because you find a “360 Sound” label doesn't mean you have an “original” pressing. -1A is an original. Then -1B, etc. Past a certain number it goes to -1AA, etc. There's great variability to the sound of these different pressings with -1A being best, of course.

As for Simon and Garfunkel, you either like them or you find them precious and hyperdramatic (“I Am A Rock”), but Paul Simon's songwriting talent cannot be denied-even by his detractors. The mono mix is interesting too, and well worth picking up should you come across one.

2) Simon and Garfunkel: Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme (Columbia CS9363 “360 Sound” label)

Again Halee gets the acoustic instruments right: guitars, bells, harpsichord, bongos, celeste, and bass all sound as right today as they did when this was issued. The better your system, the better this sounds. Instrumental layering is precise on a deep and wide soundstage, and Halee uses the echo chamber subtly to augment the songs' meanings. Voices are again utterly natural. Includes classics like “Homeward Bound,” “The 59th Street Bridge Song,” and “The Dangling Conversation,” and stuff that doesn't wear too well, like “7 O'Clocki News/Silent Night.” Again, copies are plentiful and the master two track tapes have been lost.

3) Simon and Garfunkel: Bookends (Columbia KCS 9529 “360 Sound” label)

“I've got little in this world, but I'd pay a hundred dollars for a mint copy,” to paraphrase one of the old people's voices on this 1968 release which contains the classic “Mrs. Robinson” from The Graduate. Also here, “America,” “Hazy Shade Of Winter,” and “At The Zoo.” Perhaps here Simon and Garfunkel's somewhat out of focus concept album overreaches. Again, Halee's trademark, ultra-natural sounding acoustic instruments can be heard here, along with many experimental effects like the flanging on “At The Zoo.” The album opens with an ambitious sound collage on “Save The Life of A Child.” Only here, improvements in equipment make the sound cleaner and more vibrant than on previous albums. This album is more difficult to find, particularly with the poster, and again, the master two track is gone.

4) Simon and Garfunkel: Bridge Over Troubled Water (Columbia KCS 9914 (“360 Sound” label, Mobile Fidelity MFSL 1-173 _ speed master LP, Classic Records 180g LP and 4 LP 45rpm)

The pinnacle of the duo's work, and Halee's association with them. The album is worth having for the title track alone, but also included is “Keep The Customer Satisfied,” “Cecilia,” “The Only Living Boy in New York” and of course “The Boxer.” A production tour de force, and great studio musicians including Hal Blaine, Larry Knechtel, and Joe Osborne. Deep bass, enormous soundstage, gorgeous piano sound on “Bridge….”-a must have album that is as much Halee's creation as Simon's-and I doubt he'd argue with that.

To be savored with the lights out and the subwoofers on. The Mo-fi transfer (out of print) is pressed on quieter vinyl and is extremely fine, though not quite as transparent as the CBS original and somewhat muffled.

Classic's 45rpm reissue is a treasure worth owning, while the standard 33 1/3 Classic reissue is merely outstanding as will be a clean 1A Columbia “360 Sound” original.

5) Simon and Garfunkel : Concert in Central Park. Geffen 2GHS 22012 (2 LPs)

That this must have been an uncomfortable (1981) reunion for the two, who never really reconciled their differences here or any time afterwards, doesn't come through on this extraordinarily well recorded historic set, engineered and mixed by Halee. The crowd's excitement is well captured, making this a wonderful document that put the lid on the Sixties for many listeners

6) Paul Simon: Hearts and Bones. Warner Brothers 9 23942-1 LP

Though his 1983 Warner Brothers debut was a commercial failure, it remains one of Simon's favorite albums. Probably too introspective for the glitzy, coarse, Reagan decade, the record will grow in stature as time passes. Halee's first and hopefully last all digital production (using 3M's 50K sampling rate system), the sound is actually better in retrospect than I originally thought: clean and not too gritty, though thin and somewhat flat compared to the best Simon and Garfunkel records. Drums and percussion just don't make it. And the bass is flat and indistinct as only digital can do it. Great supporting musicians sprinkled throughout: Anthony Jackson (a dedicated audiophile), Nile Rogers, Bernard Edwards, Al DiMeola, Steve Gadd, and Airto Moreira among them.

7) Paul Simon: Graceland. Warner Brothers 9 25447-1 LP

Everybody's favorite 1987 demo CES album, though controversial because of edginess in vocals and other instruments. As with Rhythm of the Saints, Halee was forced to store and edit digitally, though some of the instruments were kept all analog through the mixdown to analog and DMM LP, which killed the CD version. Despite the digital problems, this is, considering the sever technical problems, a great sounding LP. Musically, nothing needs to be said.

8) Paul Simon: Rhythm of the Saints. Warner Brothers 26098-1 LP

The sound of the original LP is disappointing: flat and non-dynamic. Here the CD has it all over the LP. Halle had later had it re-cut DMM instead of lacquer, resulting in one and a half more dB of level-which is considerable. But how do you know which you're getting-if you can find the LP at all? You don't unless you can inspect the disc for DMM marks on the lead-out groove area. This percussion based set grows on you with each play. Halle gave me a cassette recorded directly from the analog master tape. CDs sound like the master tape? Those who say it lie-or they're hearing impaired. At least back in 1991!

9) Negotiations and Love Songs: 1971-1986. Warner Brothers 25789-1 LP. Rather than taking the easy way out and assembling the 2 LP greatest hits package digitally, Halee hand assembled it analog. The extra work paid off. In most cases the sound improves on the original, though overall it is somewhat brighter. And the cover photo by Robert Mapplethorpe (before the furor) is the finest photo of Simon ever put on an album jacket.

10) Ladysmith Black Mambazo: Shaka Zulu. Warner Brothers 25582-1 LP

Compare the warm, natural, atmospheric analog sound here with Josh Abbey's work on Ladysmith's next LP Journey Of Dreams recorded all digital on the Mitsubishi X-80. You'll hear why digital is still lousy and Halee is still great after all these years.

11) The Lovin' Spoonful: Hums Of The Lovin' Spoonful. Kama Sutra KLPS 8054/Sundazed 180g reissue.

No mention of Halee here. I remember buying the first Lovin' Spoonful album (Do You Believe In Magic [Kama Sutra KLPS 8050]) when it was first released. Kama Sutra? What is this going to sound like? Uh oh, “Director of Engineering-Val Valentin.” That usually spelled bad sound. Probably not real stereo. In those days MGM (which distributed Kama Sutra) would put “Sounds Great In Stereo” on reprocessed mono records, meaning “”Sounds great in stereo-too bad this isn't.” They butchered most everything. But lo and behold, that true stereo album sounded great! As did Daydream (Kama Sutra KLPS 8051). But Hums sounds the best: utterly natural vocals, wide stage, though hard left and right instruments with vocals in the middle. Deep bass, unprocessed guitars, and great shakers and gourds. Turns out to be Halee's work. In those days Val Valentin took credit for everything because he was director of engineering. And since this was Halee's last Lovin' Spoonful album, it was their last good sounding one. Halee doesn't remember if he engineered the first two-it could have been Phil Ramone. Sundazed's 180g reissue is very good, but closed in and dry sounding compared to the original-probably due to tape deterioration.

12) The Byrds: The Notorious Byrd Brothers. Columbia CS 9775 (“360 Sound” label).

The classic Halee sound plus lots of interesting studio tricks on “Artificial Energy” and the chilling “Draft Morning.” If you are disappointed that we didn't spend more time talking about The Byrds in the interview, you are not alone. Unfortunately, Halee doesn't remember much about these sessions. In fact, he didn't even remember doing this album, though he did remember the “one with Gram Parsons.” (Co-engineering credit to Don Thompson.)

13) The Byrds: Sweetheart Of The Rodeo. Columbia CS 9670 (“360 Sound” label).

Ditto to above. Co-engineering credit to Charlie Bragg.

14) Bob Dylan: Highway 61 Revisited. Columbia CS9189 (“360 Sound” label).

Halee says he “didn't know what he was doing” on this, his first studio session. Halee lies! Just listen to the tambourine skin, the clarity of the tack piano, the bass drum-the whole damn thing! I used to think the voice was harsh and sibilent until I got a good front end. It's the cleanest, most vibrant recording of Dylan's voice with the exception of Ramone's work on Blood on the Tracks.